To add something new, animation directors Chen Liaoyu and Yang Mu from "Chinese Fantasy Tales": It's not just about people taking stories from the past | China | Chen Liaoyu
The Collection of Chinese Strange Tales is a comic book series derived from the animated short story collection "Chinese Strange Tales". It consists of eight independent stories rooted in traditional Chinese culture: "Summer of Little Monsters," "Goose, Goose, Goose, Goose, Goose," "Lin Lin," "The Country Bus takes away Wang Hai'er and the Immortal," "Xiaoman," "Jade Rabbit," "Snack Shop," and "Birds and Fish.". From the scenery of the northern country to the alleys and alleys, from the future universe to the rural world, the story covers nostalgia for the countryside, technological fantasies, life themes, and human reflections, "seeing" Chinese culture and philosophy through Chinese imagination.
"Future generations cannot be trapped by this."
Looking at the news: Each episode of "Chinese Strange Tales" is a short film with its own independent and unique style. As the chief director, how do you grasp the overall tone? For example, what kind of story is "Chinese fantasy" and what kind of creativity or story doesn't sound like?
Chen Liaoyu: The four words "Chinese fantasy" are actually the answer.
"China" is the cultural attribute of a work, but it is not a narrow conceptual symbol. For example, when many people mention Chinese culture now, they will think of folk music, Hanfu, traditional Chinese painting, etc., which of course have Chinese cultural attributes. But I believe that Chinese culture has greater tolerance, and China's past, present, and even future can be conceived and created.
Looking at the news: The directors Gu Yang and Liu Kuang of "The Snack Shop" had previously mentioned several stories to you, but they were all rejected by you. It wasn't until you saw Gu Yang's hand-painted map of hutongs that you suggested they create with hutongs as the background. Why is there such a suggestion?
Chen Liaoyu: The stories they initially provided were also excellent, with a focus on creativity. When conceptualizing an animation, one often falls for a creative idea, which is certainly very interesting. However, as a work with Chinese cultural attributes, excellent creativity alone is not enough.
In fact, you are Chinese, living in China, your life itself naturally has Chinese cultural attributes. Why choose stories in hutongs? Gu Yang and Liu Kuang live in hutongs. I am very familiar with them. When I went to their house, I saw a picture of a person in a hutong painted by Gu Yang on the table. It was centered around the hutong where I lived, and I drew it into a cartoon with vivid characters inserted on it. As soon as I saw it and found it interesting, I asked "Tell me about it.".
Gu Yang vividly described every person she observed based on the map. For example, there is an uncle in the alley who often reads under the street lamp and doesn't know what to read. One day, Gu Yang passed by and took a sneak glance, only to discover that it was actually a very thick original English book. Halfway through, I told her to be a story and person in the alley, and not to think of any other creative ideas.
Looking at the news: Life in hutongs is realistic, how can we bring it to the realm of fantasy?
Chen Liaoyu: Fantastic stories require imagination. At that time, a story had not yet formed in Gu Yang's family. But when I observe her, her eyes dance when she talks about hutongs, and she has a strong feeling. I knew it was okay.
The problem is how to add a touch of fantasy to the stories of hutongs. We cannot increase for the sake of increase. We should force an unrelated myth into it and only use the alleyway as a background. That's not enough.
In this story now, there are various small immortals and elves such as stone lions and yellow weasels, all of whom are residents of the alley and are actually incarnations of various people in the alley, thus establishing the relationship between Mr. Yang and the alley. All stories are ultimately human stories, telling about human nature.
A person's love for something does not necessarily have to be on the surface of their mouth. It is more convincing to depict it through concrete and vivid details. The mysterious journey between Mr. Yang and various small immortals in the alley may seem magical and full of fantasies on the surface, but fundamentally it is still Mr. Yang's love for the alley, his attachment to neighbors and places.
We live in China, and from this perspective, expressing our emotions towards the place of life is a story that belongs to the Chinese fantasy.
Shangkan News: The first episode of "Summer of Little Monsters" uses ink painting style and has gained a good reputation. Many netizens were hit by "this mountain, this water, this tree", evoking memories of Shanghai Art Film Studio. But in fact, the following episodes have independent art styles, and there is even a three-dimensional modeling form of "Lin Lin". It can be seen that the overall art style of "Chinese Strange Tales" does not pursue unity, and you are not actually entangled with the element of "ink and wash"?
Chen Liaoyu: Whether it's the Shanghai Film Studio or China, these are all living concepts, not a fixed scope. At this moment, China is China, and tomorrow's China is also China.
The excellent animated films created by Shanghai Meiying Factory still leave a deep impression on people. The cultural wealth accumulated by the predecessors can be used by future generations, but they cannot be framed by it. It seems that they must show off Chinese style lines and ink painting in order to express Chinese culture.
The title emphasizes the cultural attributes of China, but it is open, growing, and changing, not only in the past, but also pointing towards the present and future. I won't deliberately say that a certain episode must use ink painting style just because I love ink painting.
The story of "The Summer of the Little Monster" takes place in the mountains and forests, with lush vegetation and natural scenery. The painting style with ink and wash charm is particularly suitable for expressing such an environment.
The story of "The Little Shop" takes place in the city and needs to showcase more specific details of alleyway life. Ink painting leans towards freehand brushwork, and the art style ultimately adopted in "The Shop" leans towards realism, making the audience more resonant. But it is also a Chinese story, expressing our culture and emotions. The key is whether the form matches the story.
"Image is lagging behind in the art system"
Looking at the news: Since there are already vivid videos, why would you still think of publishing a book?
Chen Liaoyu: People have a complex towards paper books. From a habit perspective, once it falls on paper, the standards are higher and more rigorous. Books need to withstand repeated contemplation and careful reading in their hands, which feels different from flowing videos. The aesthetic of books comes from the layout, while movies come from the camera. The narrative methods of the two are actually different, with different emphases.
At present, 8 short films have been condensed into 8 books. We and the editor have screened and selected representative images, and designed them in a comic layout that is acceptable to young people. We have made adjustments and strived for excellence in some of the visuals, which are not completely consistent with the animated videos.
I hope people can hold it in their hands and browse anytime, anywhere. Some parents buy it back as bedtime reading materials for their children. There are also young people who like comics and buy them as gifts to collect.
Chinese cultural style visuals are already suitable as flat reading materials, and each frame is like a painting, which can better reflect its artistic beauty on paper.
Looking at the news: Animation development publications have always been in various forms. The content perspectives of collections of related works such as art, original works, and settings can be different and diverse.
Chen Liaoyu: Currently, in addition to the story, the last few pages of each book will also briefly describe how the characters are set and how to start creating from the draft in the "Chinese Strange Tales Collection Edition". The publishing house also released a personal collection of works by director Hu Rui, which is a pure art collection. In the future, there may not only be stories presented through visuals, but also sets of character settings and notes that express the director's creative ideas, further exploring the IP of "Chinese fantasy".
Looking at the news: Nowadays, the collection version also comes with stickers, bookmarks, and small monster paper masks. That is to say, not only books, but also some peripheral cultural and creative products have been developed. It seems that two-dimensional animation is more likely to form cultural phenomena. Does 3D animation seem unfavorable for subsequent second creation and development?
Yang Mu: 2D hand drawing has stronger controllability and more diverse styles, and indeed has a larger space for artistic creation. However, 3D animation is limited by software technology. Currently, the engines and renderers used to produce 3D animation have a very low domestic production rate and require a large number of programmers to program.
Pixar's renderer was developed by them themselves and is supported by a huge industry. And we haven't reached this level, at most it's just a colleague writing a small plugin, so 3D creation is constrained by technology.
When I was doing "Lin Lin", I didn't want it to be in the style of Pixar or Disney. To enhance my strengths and avoid my weaknesses, I extracted and applied aesthetic features from Chinese painting to "Lin Lin", such as scattered perspective, low saturation colors, low contrast, and white space, emphasizing contours rather than light and shadow. These not only have Chinese aesthetic characteristics, but also can be achieved without too many programmers.
However, the peripheral products of 3D animation are indeed difficult to develop. When designing graphic bookmarks, posters, and display boards, Lin Lin has always been said to be difficult. In terms of secondary creation and the development of peripheral products, two-dimensional flat animation does have advantages and is easier to create derivative cultures.
Looking at the news: Traditional Chinese culture itself is more sensitive to graphic art, especially lines and contours. Is it easier for Chinese audiences to accept and perceive the artistic expression of two-dimensional animation?
Yang Mu: Indeed, 3D software essentially reproduces real-life physical scenes, just like Western classical painting tends to focus on realism, pursuing realistic textures and perspective relationships. Chinese painting, on the other hand, emphasizes more on contours and lines, without emphasizing volume, light and shadow, texture, etc., and uses the three-dimensional perspective method.
During the production of "Lin Lin", it was considered to use the ternary perspective and scatter perspective of Chinese painting. But I found that panoramic view is possible, close range is not, because 3D animation is real photography, and one shot is a true perspective relationship, the two are contradictory.
At present, it is very difficult to preserve the unique charm of Eastern aesthetics in 3D animation, and many animators are exploring fusion.
Watch the news: Then continue to focus on two-dimensional artistic expression, without demanding three-dimensional animation. Is this okay?
Yang Mu: To be honest, cinema movies or 3D animations have box office appeal. 2D animation, some people think it's not worth watching in the cinema.
Looking at the news: However, there are many popular anime genres on various platforms, and it seems that 2D anime is the majority. Many of them belong to traditional cultural styles and themes, and have a higher fan base with high stickiness. That's also why print publications have always been popular among animation fans.
Yang Mu: I also hope that animation has more possibilities for elements, rather than just pursuing special effects and 3D realistic effects. Animators need to work hard to create more works with unique Chinese styles. This not only requires the rise of animation, but also the entire cultural ecosystem behind it.
Image is lagging behind in the art system, requiring support from literature, art, music, and so on. Otherwise, it will be difficult to have good original stories, good visual presentation, and production. Only when music, literature, art, and contemporary art all flourish together, can animation art have a better future.
"I have been taking it from the past, but I will only use it less and less."
Looking at the news: How is the industrialization level of domestic animation now? Does the director lead their own team in each episode, or is it just that the director is different and the team is the same?
Chen Liaoyu: There are many different types of animations on the market now, each with a different task. Some people have to tell a long story and pursue a production mode that is relatively efficient, low-cost, and can be updated weekly, which makes it difficult to express it experimentally with special techniques.
Fortunately, "Chinese Fantasy Tales" can take two years to gather 11 directors and produce 8 short films, each lasting more than ten minutes. We have more time and energy to create using some expensive special techniques. Industrialization is no longer our most important mission.
For example, "Goose, Goose, Goose" has a pencil hand drawn art style, but fortunately, it only has one short episode. If this style were to produce a few thousand minutes of film, the director's team might not be able to draw it well.
So, each work has its appropriate mission. We have a small size and high cost per unit time, and can provide some exploratory, diverse, and different content from other works in the market, so that when you open the world, you can see both types of animations.
From the perspective of the chief director, how can you control the cultural quality of each short film while respecting the personality of each director?
Chen Liaoyu: My team and I control the quality of all creative works and provide feedback, but each episode's director has their own creative space and familiar partners. If the director lacks any resources, let's help solve it together.
For example, "The Snack Shop" appears to be a 2D animation, but it actually involves 3D technology. The team of director Yang Mu, who excels in 3D, helped solve some problems in "Lin Lin". We are both independent and cooperate with each other. Every month, I also gather the directors together to watch the progress of their respective works and provide feedback to each other.
Looking at the news: What are some impressive opinions colliding?
Chen Liaoyu: In "The Summer of the Little Monster," the little pig demon is chased and hid under a stone. In "Lin Lin", the little girl was also chased and hid under a stone. Two directors bumped into each other during a meeting, why are they both hiding under a stone? I originally wanted someone to make a change, but the two directors contacted each other in their respective contexts and felt that there was no need to make any changes. I'll just let it take its course.
Interestingly, netizens have a keen eye. When the little girl hid under the stone, a barrage read, "Pig Demon: There's someone here." "Pig Demon: This is my territory." The netizens' reaction was very interesting.
Creators are easily immersed in their own world, while directors are each other's first audience and can come up with ideas for each other.
Looking at the news: Did you make any criticisms during the mutual viewing meeting?
Chen Liaoyu: The director of "Goose, Goose, Goose" has previously made several versions of the short film and even wanted to try 3D. A skilled animation director also wants to break through. But as soon as everyone looks at his 3D sample, they say forget it. Someone jokingly said, "You have black history in our hands. When will you show it in 3D to the audience?" These are a group of very cute directors.
All the problems that arose when attempting 3D production in "Goose, Goose, Goose" were easily solved when returning to 2D form. So I still emphasize that the form should match the content.
Shangkan News: "Goose, Goose, Goose" is adapted from the Chinese supernatural novel "Continuation of Qi Xie Ji" in "Goose Cage Scholar", with a history of over 1500 years. This story has been highly praised by many literati and scholars, and Lu Xun has specifically conducted research on it. Nowadays, "Goose Cage Scholar" has become an idiom, meaning "out of illusion". The human heart is unpredictable and unpredictable. The director hopes to help more people rediscover the beauty of Chinese monsters and culture. But many netizens also expressed that the story is very extreme and cannot be understood.
Chen Liaoyu: I saw some netizens describing this episode as "inexplicably fierce.".
In fact, the director has made several versions in the early stages and has also considered whether the audience can understand and whether they are likable. The first few versions were not bad, but I knew him too well. I said, "Hu Rui, this is not you."
My habit is to first identify the person, not the work. I understand every director I am looking for. A person's growth experience, accumulated knowledge, cultural structure, personality, interests, values, etc. will be consciously or unconsciously reflected in their works. We can change many things in our creations, but it is difficult to change the impact of inherent human characteristics on the work. This is the most authentic part of the work and the least likely part for others to replicate.
Because I know Hu Rui well, I know that although the previous versions were not bad, they were not enough to reflect his unique personal style and shining points. After thinking too much, he got lost. After being denied several times by me, he eventually returned to this version. It does seem a bit obscure, not the usual movie narrative, but this is Hu Rui's personal style. "Goose, Goose, Goose" is taken from traditional culture and is both traditional and modern, resonating with the present.
Almost all the styling details of Hu Rui in the picture have clear historical origins and origins. But he used pencil sketching to draw the landscape lines like ink paintings. The techniques of Western style sketching can also depict Chinese characters and landscapes.
Chinese cultural elements do not need to be deliberate, they will emerge in every sincere expression we make.
Looking at the news: Many people on online platforms are starting to interpret "Goose, Goose, Goose". Digging deeper into the prototypes and creative sources behind "Chinese Fantasy Tales" can further guide readers to read classics.
Chen Liaoyu: For me, having a good work is the most important thing, and whether the audience understands or not comes second. When a work leaves the author and is made public, it has nothing to do with the author anymore.
In the Internet era, authors and audiences can interact. Some people online also ask the director what several parts of the film mean. Sometimes directors will reply on their own. Everyone forms the way a work exists with each other.
Looking at the news: Recently, people have been very fond of mentioning artificial intelligence. In the era of high technology, film and television special effects have been constantly improving, approaching reality more and more. But does graphic art, especially hand drawn animation, have unique value?
Chen Liaoyu: The technology and creative concepts of animation have developed to this day, and the boundaries between two-dimensional and three-dimensional have been broken. Some animated films have a three-dimensional production process, but the resulting visual experience is two-dimensional and flat. So we don't have to worry about technology.
You asked about the intrinsic value of artistic works. Creating animation will inevitably face a question: why is it animation instead of making a live action movie? If we find several real people to act with the same effect, why do we need to create an animation?
Is it possible to replace "Goose, Goose, Goose" with a live action performance? I think it's not possible. The unique spatial relationships, visuals, lines, rhythm, and textual coordination presented in animated films ultimately result in an artistic conception and charm that cannot be expressed by real people or real-life shots. This is similar to the translation of ancient poetry, which goes "flying down three thousand feet". If translated in foreign language, it means "there is a stream of water flowing down from a mountain three thousand feet high". Three thousand feet is very practical in the concept of foreigners. But Chinese people's understanding of the number "three thousand" and the state of "flying" and "going straight down" is full of imagination. With the Chinese interpretation engraved in cultural genes, we can appreciate its infinite charm.
Similarly, the aesthetic uniqueness of animation art cannot be replaced, which is its unique value.
Looking at the news: You have always upheld an inclusive, open, and innovative attitude towards the expression of traditional culture and the understanding of Chinese stories.
Chen Liaoyu: Cultural confidence does not come from labeling. We must find something unique to ourselves that others do not have, or deliberately use symbolic techniques. That's not the case. Today, everything we see in our daily lives has not only undergone vertical temporal development, but also the result of global horizontal spatial integration.
When it comes to the word "China", don't always think about it. You are also a part of it. If you do it well, you have added a brick to it. I have been taking it from people before, but I will use it less and less.
"Chinese Tales" is a part of Chinese culture, and I hope it is not only taken from the past, but also adds something to Chinese culture and future generations.
"Chinese Strange Tales Collection Edition" by Bilibili of Shanghai Fine Arts Film Studio Co., Ltd. CITIC Publishing Group
